Interview with DarkOwl’s Irina and Bianca

August 26, 2023

For the third year in a row, in honor of Women’s Equality Day today, August 26^th, the DarkOwl Marketing team interviews our Finance Controller, Irina, and Analyst, Bianca. Last year, we chatted with our Director of Client Engagement, Caryn Farino, and Senior Darknet Analyst, Steph Shample – that blog can be found here. Two years, we sat down with Chief Business Officer, Alison Halland, and Director of Technology, Sarah Prime – check out that blog here. DarkOwl is very proud of our women leadership and workforce and strives to continue to build a balanced workforce with the most talented and effective team possible.

Interview: Thoughts on Being a Women in Cybersecurity from Two Members of DarkOwl’s Team

To commemorate Women’s Equality Day, we sat down for a candid interview about working in the cybersecurity industry with two women from our team.

Editors Note: Some content has been edited for length and clarity.

Globally, 14,865 people took part in the 2023 ISC2 Cybersecurity Workforce Survey. Of this, 17% of the respondents were women. While this is a worryingly low figure compared to other sectors like the legal profession (53% women) and the accountancy sector (46% women), we took a deeper look at the data and discovered a number of positive trends, including women’s pathways into the profession, the roles they play within cybersecurity teams and the career path similarities with men in many areas.

Tell me about your background and your journey to where you are now – did you know you always wanted to be in cyber? 

Irina: I came from Siberia, which at the time was part of the Soviet Union. I moved to New Mexico, U.S.A., when I was 14 years old, speaking very little English and quickly improved my language skills and had to learn Navajo and Spanish. Moving to the U.S. was a major culture shock! But with perseverance I was able to acquire the confidence to integrate into the American way of life.  

No. I had no idea I would be in cyber security. My background is in finance, having studied to get my M.B.A. I love numbers, but I also have a great appreciation for cutting-edge technologies. 

Bianca: I didn’t know that I wanted to go into cybersecurity either. My academic background was actually in international relations, and while my focus wasn’t on cybersecurity, I had the chance to take classes on topics adjacent to cyber. Then, after graduation, I found myself drawn to cybersecurity quite naturally in light of an increase in cyber threat actor activity associated with global conflicts. Seeing the ways conflicts like the Russia-Ukraine war can prompt the emergence of more cyber activity really interested me in particular, given my international relations background.  

Has working in this field dispelled any misconceptions you had about your own abilities or interests? 

Irina: Well, no, it would be my answer. As I previously mentioned, I love new and exciting technologies and to be able to help make these companies function well gives me great satisfaction and is a privilege. I enjoy the challenge of using my abilities to work with areas that are outside of my usual expertise. I found that my ability to speak fluent Russian has helped me on numerous occasions, to go above and beyond my usual responsibilities. 

Bianca: As someone with an international relations background in this field, I would say yes. My background isn’t in coding or software development, and while I was in university that’s what I associated with cybersecurity. And now, being in it, I’ve realized that it’s a multifaceted field that ultimately requires a wide variety of skills, especially analytical skills and critical thinking skills. Many may assume that having a liberal arts background might not help you in the cybersecurity field, but, in reality, I think it provides the essential ability to think critically and solve problems and approach issues from multiple viewpoints. 

Can you both talk a little bit about your professional development? Have there been any specific courses or certifications that you would recommend for somebody trying to get into cybersecurity? And then for you, Irina, anything finance specific on top of that? 

Irina: I’m a finance person having an MBA, as I mentioned earlier, that’s my love and that’s my training. I wish to use this to help cybersecurity companies and other companies to succeed. I have no professional experience in the dark web, but I can help and enhance the use of their finances! 

Bianca: Well, I can’t speak to finance at all, so I’m glad you’re here!  

In terms of cyber, there’s, of course, Michael Bazzell’s work, which is an amazing resource for building out those foundational skills. He has a guide on leaks and breaches that’s very helpful for data collection specifically. But ultimately, what’s helped me the most is getting hands-on experience. I think that at the end of the day, no matter how many guides you read, nothing’s going to prepare you more than actually applying those skills in the real world. Before getting that experience, I would also say that it’s really helpful to have a mentor in the field who can provide tips and answer questions. There’s also a great resource called NatSecGirlSquad, which is a network of individuals that work in the broader security field, many of whom are in cybersecurity, so it’s a good way to connect with people. 

What’s it like being a woman in the cybersecurity industry? And Irina, you’re just not in cybersecurity but finance as well, another male dominated industry and profession. What are the challenges or advantages that you guys have experienced? 

Irina: For me, it’s always difficult being a woman in a man’s world. But I have found with time, my male colleagues grew to appreciate my understanding of not only financial world, but of their problems and be able to help solve these problems. 

Bianca: I have to say that I feel incredibly lucky being here at DarkOwl because I feel like, unlike the broader cybersecurity industry, it’s such an inclusive environment and there are women in leadership positions who serve as role models here. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for the broader cybersecurity industry; I know recent data from ISC2 showed that at least three out of four cybersecurity professionals are male. So in terms of inclusion, cybersecurity is still behind as a field, even when compared to other male-dominated industries. 

How do you feel about the representation of women in cybersecurity, and have either of you seen it change since you started your careers? 

Irina: My experience with women in cybersecurity has very much been down to my enjoyable and productive relationships with women in DarkOwl, and I really feel ill equipped to comment on how the industry in general treats women. 

Bianca: Yeah, I can relate in the sense that as someone relatively new to the field, I can’t personally speak to how it has changed over the years. But looking at the number of women I know going into this field, it feels like we may finally be moving in the right direction, slowly but surely. And certainly, here at DarkOwl, we have a lot of women in leadership positions, and I think that makes a huge difference. You know, seeing women in public leadership positions really plays a huge role in challenging stereotypes and inspiring people to follow similar paths. 

And what steps do you think organizations can take to promote gender equality and inclusion in cybersecurity roles? 

Bianca: I would say definitely identifying, first and foremost, any gender pay gaps and rectifying those is a vital first step. And then also, harkening back to the point about women in leadership, ensuring that there are women in the field in public leadership positions. Again, it’s important to have those role models to challenge stereotypes and facilitate similar paths for current and future generations. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to enter this field without incredible female role models that inspired me and set the stage for other women to pursue similar paths. And that kind of representation is key to moving towards workspaces that are diverse not just in terms of gender, but also in terms of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. 

Irina: I think companies should allocate more resources for training and invest in women in cybersecurity to give the industry a broader perspective. I’m thrilled we have a new Board member, who is an accomplished woman joining DarkOwl’s Board. 

Bianca: That’s such a great point, it’s such an exciting development and really stands out compared to many cybersecurity companies. Most organizations in this field don’t have the gender ratio that DarkOwl has, and certainly not for leadership positions, so this is really such exciting news.  

What do we not understand about cybersecurity as a field in its job opportunities. And what does cybersecurity mean to each of you? 

Irina: To me cybersecurity means protection. This is protecting my family, my community and my country; protecting their identities, their finances, their privacy, their future. Job opportunities are massive as cyber terrorism is becoming a greater threat day by day. My concern is so many companies and organizations do not understand the threat in a sufficient way and do not allocate the necessary resources for cybersecurity. This is a major threat to our collective future. 

Bianca: I agree completely. I think that’s a great point–summarizing cybersecurity as being about protection. And I think a common perception among people who aren’t familiar with the field, myself included before I entered it, is that cybersecurity is this coding-heavy, technical field that doesn’t have room for non-technical skills. And of course, that’s not the case at all, right? Because what’s brilliant about cybersecurity is that it’s so interdisciplinary. Cyber threats don’t exist in a vacuum; so, for instance, having an international relations background and an understanding of global conflicts can shine a light on the calculus behind cyber attacks. Cyber threats are often situated in a geopolitical context, so having individuals who can approach them from that perspective and provide a 10,000-foot view can be valuable. So overall there’s really a wide variety of opportunities in the field, ranging from software development to analysis to, as Irina can speak to, finance as well. I think that’s wonderful. 

Are there any specific projects or accomplishments in your cyber careers that you’re particularly proud of? 

Irina: I have two specific accomplishments in which I take pride in. Salespeople can be very focused on acquiring new customers and not always spend time looking after them. I was proud to be able to save a valuable customer and help to expand the business opportunities with this particular client. To also build up new relationships, which to this day has been proven to be fruitful. And on my second project, in which I’m particularly proud of, was working with a government agency that required a top executive of DarkOwl to attend a critical meeting, and needed a lot of personal input to guarantee an entry Visa, so that this executive could attend the meeting. This relationship opened up new and exciting opportunities and to this day they come back to me for a rapid and constructive responses. 

Bianca: Broadly, I’d say that I’m proud to have the opportunity to help people. Going back to Irina’s point about cybersecurity being about protection, that’s what I’m most proud of, especially when it comes to protecting vulnerable communities. I went into this field because I wanted to try to make a difference, as small as it may be, and I feel like I’ve been lucky to have the chance to contribute to that in some way. But I think most of the time there’s really this… this sense of “there’s so much more to be done and I’m not doing enough.” Especially when we see how much hate there is on the deep and dark web, and even the surface web. Being exposed to that hatred every day is disheartening, on the one hand, but on the other hand, it serves as a constant reminder of why we’re in this field and why we do the work we do and the fact that there’s still so much work to be done. 

How can the cybersecurity community better support and empower women, especially those just entering the field? 

Irina: This is not my expertise as I’m a financial expert. However, I do feel women are highly suited to this industry as it involves a range of skills that can often fit into a broader skill set that is usually found with women’s education and experience. 

Bianca: Yes, as someone relatively new to the field, again, I have felt very welcomed and empowered here at DarkOwl. I think cybersecurity organizations and the community broadly can learn a lot from what DarkOwl has done. I’ve felt empowered thanks to being included in key conversations, feeling like my voice is being heard, and having supportive colleagues. Of course, I think, again, having female leadership across the organization has played a huge part in feeling supported, because it really is direct evidence of how much DarkOwl values all of its staff. I think those are all steps that organizations across the cyber security community can take to empower women, as well as providing training opportunities, as Irina noted.  

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